A custom-sewn law is being pushed through the Knesset to facilitate Shaul Mofaz and other Kadima MK's to transfer their MK riches to the Netanyahu coalition.
Last summer when Bibi spoke to the International Jblogger Conference he made it very clear that his goal was to "welcome back" former Likudniks from Kadima.
Moshe Feiglin's idea of taking over the Likud may have sounded possible to people when it was first broached. But get real. Look at what has happened. It's not working, and it won't work. Feiglin hasn't charmed the old time Likudniks, and Bibi is getting better at running the party with a very "strong arm."
People who believe in Feiglin's ideology are voting for Lieberman, National Union and even National Religious Party. And that's besides those who voted for Likud. Cut your losses and join the Ichud Le'umi, the National Union.
14 comments:
Your analysis is wrong. Feiglin is taking over the Likud, and 20 out of 27 MK's in Knesset were recommended by him over those of Netanyahu.
I volunteer for Manhigut personally, and sign up people for Likud ever day, swelling Feiglin's ranks in the party. There are 120,000 Likud members. Voter turnout in primaries is 40% on average. That's 50,000 voters, and 15,000 of them are Feiglin's, who turnout at twice the average rate. So if you think it's just a dream, the people in Knesset right now as well as the numbers prove you wrong.
Joining the National Union is pointless. Without a man like Feiglin at the helm, there is no hope for the state.
Also, you could say the same thing about National Union voters. You voted for Katz and you got Bibi. Feiglin said explicitly that Bibi was going to grab Barak. There was no surprise there at all. The point isn't to "take over the party". The point is to be a part of the ruling party of the national camp, and to use it to lead the country - not to collect 4 seats in the knesset only to be thrown to the dogs.
Think bigger. Think with stamina. We will win this, and Feiglin will lead. We only need a few thousand more to fill out those little Kikud party sheets and we're there. Don't give up now. Join us!
Reb Rafi, You're mixing up numbers and names. Most of the MK's Feiglin told "his supporters" to vote for don't return the admiration. And pretty obviously from Bibi's policies, they're not controling the government, even if they're the majority.
I don't see Feiglin as leading anything.
NU MK's aren't hand-tied the way the good Likud MK's are.
With the help of people like yourselves and Feiglin people in the NU, it would be a much more powerful party.
Wrong again my friend. Again - Feiglin was clear on the fact that they wouldn't return his admiration. The man predicts things perfectly. Don't fault him for it. The point is, he can decide who gets elected to the Knesset and who doesn't - not that they return his admiration. If he has more influence than Bibi over the makeup of the slate, then how can you say he doesn't lead anything? See this article on them "controlling the government".
http://www.jewishisrael.org/eng_contents/press/feiglininnews026.html
The facts are just straight against you, not my opinion.
And NU's hands being tied? Of course they're not tied - you can't have your hands tied if you have no hands!
Get out of your party mentality and join up with Am Yisrael. NU's days are over, and they won't even exist in the next elections.
Sorry, Reb Rafi, in terms of Likud, been there, done that. Bibi is no more interested in listening to the Likud voters and MK's than Sharon was. I don't see Feiglin as having the "last laugh."
Frankly,
I think that what Feiglin (MY) and NU are doing is important. Unless our backs are up against the wall, you cannot possible unite everyone under one flag. MY and NU allow the orange camp to express itself differently and I would not do without either.
Claiming that one side is better than the other is actually harmful to both sides. The 'adversary' is outside, not within the camp. Any attempt to steal votes from either side will fail and waste them by keeping people home from the disgusting infighting. I personally lost a NU vote when a fellow coworker perceived they were bickering with the BY.
RebRafi, your arrogance does not benefit to Feiglin. 'Taking over' the Likud is what most Likudniks are afraid of. Feiglin still needs to fight to promote that he is the real Likud and the whining after the last elections bashing Bibi did not help.
In the meantime, this is all pointless for now. The real enemy is Hussein Obama is has taken clear sides with the Arabs and is attempting to alienate Bibi. The leftists are divided between those that see this outside threat (ala Dershowitz lately) and those that see it as an opportunity to keep hounding Bibi (ala Ben Caspit).
Guys, guys - let's just realize this: We're on the same side here, you're right. My last intention is to be arrogant. It's not a question of who's correct here, whether I am, or you are, and who's wrong. We all want the same thing - for Jews to live in their land.
Please also understand that we need each other, because right now, we're the only ones fighting in the open. The Jews will follow us, but only once we lead. Whether we lead through NU or the Likud, in the end it makes no difference. However, time is of the essence, and we're running short on it.
You're disgusted by Netanyahu. You know that I am too, and that's why I'm doing something about it by getting people to vote him out. But you can't vote him out if you have no right to vote within the party.
So for the love of yourselves, of our people, and for what we believe in, and for the love of God, we have to try everything at our disposal. If you want to vote NU and you think it will help, by all means, please do so. However, to be insulted by Netanyahu and therefore shy away from paying 64 shekels for a ticket to VOTE HIM OUT the next time around is unacceptable.
No, I won't be blaming Bibi anymore if he gives the terrorist our home. And I won't be blaming Barak, or Lieberman, or any of the other people who I know exactly what they stand for.
If the man who leads the Likud stands for compromise and withdrawal and expulsions, I won't be blaming any of these people. I will be blaming you, because you stand for what's right, and you didn't do everything in your power to stop it.
Join the Likud and vote NU if you have to, but our very lives are at stake here. If you don't understand that, I pray that you will soon enough when the community is expelled and their houses destroyed.
And when that happens, I want you to remember what I told you here and now. It is up to us. We must work together. So take the paper, join, and help save our future.
By the way, call me Rafi.
josh, thanks for the moderating voice and common sense, except for one thing. Please stop using the term "orange camp." I don't consider myself "orange." My bracelet is held "by a thread" and now brown like the fertile soil of Eretz Yisrael. I'm a pro-Land of Israel for the Jewish People. That's it.
Rafi, just that you should know, since you're obviously very new to my blog. I've been in Likud (as a member) since before it was called Likud. I vote in internal elections.
Then I have no ta'anot against you. You are doing the right thing. However, please understand that statements like "I don't see Feiglin as leading anything" or encouraging him to give up and abandon the Likud to people like Bibi would be a disaster for you as well. Do your best to encourage both strategies - in and out of Likud - and hopefully both of our efforts will be strengthened.
Rafi, I don't like that Bibi takes your votes and uses them to prop up people like Barak and Danny Ayalon who's wife is an xtian.
I don't want this to deteriorate into a petty last-word contest, but I never told you who I voted for, but I will tell you that it wasn't Likud. When they pushed Moshe from 20 to 36, I wanted them to go down.
This will be my last word, but I want you to just understand where the "Feiglinites" are coming from. For us, at the core, this is not about tactics, "right wing" or even politics. It's not about Feiglin the man or security or Arabs or settlements or Oslo or lack thereof. It's about one thing, and one thing only: Uniting this country through its Jewish identity.
Jews always talk about how they want to be unified and all that other nice stuff, but few people are willing to do what it takes to actually achieve it. In order to achieve unity in the Jewish people, you have to go way down to the basics, the common denominator. And it can't be a sector, or an orange camp, or settlers. It's gotta be Jewish Identity, from Haredi to Chiloni, from Settler to Tel Avivan who lights Shabbat candles and that's it.
The Feiglinites have joined Likud to end religious and sectorial parties for good, and fundamentally and foundationally change everything at the core. The only way we can do that, is by leading. Period.
We're going for it all. We no longer want 4, or 5, or 10, or even 20 or 27 seats in the Knesset. We want 70, and no, I am not exaggerating.
Call me naive. Call me dreamy. But then again, all we need is 5,000 more people within the Likud to give it a whirl and see if it rolls.
If it does, we are in for some fun. If it doesn't, then I will say that the Jews were not ready for the next step, and that's OK. Eventually they will be. But we smell it. The Am is ready. They're waiting for us, for you, for me, to end this post zionist nightmare and go back to ourselves and be a REAL Or Lagoyim for the first time in millenia.
So entertain the possibility that we might be on to something here, and read Feiglin's book Where there are No Men, especially the final two chapters and you might get a taste of what I'm talking about.
The only thing you have to do is help us get 5,000 more to vote in the next primaries, and if need be, the one after that. Forget about knesset elections. Those are not my issue. Once we have the number we need, we have the core we need for the rest of the nation to follow. And if we're wrong, we're wrong, and Ichud Leumi will live another day. Don't worry about it.
You've got nothing to lose. Time to start hedging your bets and get people to sign on.
Get the form here:
http://www.mflikud.co.il/contents/hitpakdut/hitpakdut.pdf
G-d thinks way out of the box we are in. While we are arguing about NU vs. MY/Likud/Licouldn't, maybe some ba'alei teshuva from secular kibbutzim will start a movement to take over the Labor Party. They could call it Avodat Hashem! But I do agree that neither NU nor MY is in a position to storm the country at the moment. It will take a number of years, but the majority of the country will be frum in the next generation because we are having the kids and we are staying while the chilonim are not having kids and the kids they do have are not giving them grandchildren. It is not clear what the tools are which will do the job, but if at the moment the majority of the school kids in Jerusalem are hareidi, it is clear that the leadership of the country is bound to change.
Muse: Manhigut is a LONG term strategy. I don't believe that any right wing party has the ability to seriously change anything going on except for a r/w influenced Likud.
Patience is the key.
You need to realize the the country is not right wing. Even a 10 mandate National Union would not lead the government or the country.
jameel, we should only survive long enough if that's the plan.
no time for more, sorry
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